I talked a little bit this morning and yesterday
about the fact that you do see some of these divisions cropping up within Hamas
and that is based on a number of different indicators. As these Hamas forces
were attacking the legitimate Palestinian security forces in a premeditated way,
Haniya was talking about the calm, calling for a ceasefire. So clearly there's a
division of opinion, a difference of opinion, within Hamas. I can't tell you
what sort of command and control relationship there is. I'll let others explain
that to you.
But we -- our opinion regarding Hamas and Hamas as
a terrorist organization hasn't changed.
Yeah.
Yeah, Libby.
MR. MCCORMACK: Well, let me start off by
saying we don't have assets on the ground in Hamas; the State Department does
not. So I can't tell you that we have eyes on anything. We rely on news reports
as well as talking to our Palestinian interlocutors who are in contact with
people in Gaza.
But it would seem that Hamas forces are in control
of many important points within the Gaza, many important towns, many important
key infrastructure points. I cannot tell you that they control all of the key
infrastructure points, all the key buildings, key crossroads, key compounds. But
I think that you have seen over the past couple of days the trend line that
shows that they are, at the very least, largely in control of the major parts of
Gaza.
Yeah.
QUESTION: And you're not concerned that
this will spread to civil war -- essentially a civil war in the West Bank?
MR. MCCORMACK: Well, we haven't seen the
spread of violence in the West Bank and I think everybody's glad for that and
everybody's pleased for that. Nobody wants to see violence. The ultimate victims
of this are the Palestinian people, not only in an immediate sense of innocent
civilians getting caught in a crossfire, but ultimately their dreams for a
Palestinian state are diminished by these kinds of acts. That is why it is up to
us as well as others in the region to support those, like President Abbas, who
have an interest in achieving a Palestinian state via the negotiating table.
Yeah.
QUESTION: What kind of conversations are
being had with the Palestinians and your other allies in the region about trying
to help President Abbas get control of Gaza? Are there consideration of extra
aid, extra support? I mean, similar to what you -- I know it's a little bit
different because of the legislation, but similar to what you're doing with
Prime Minister Siniora in Lebanon. I mean, here you have, as you've said, a
legitimate security force that's battling terrorists.
MR. MCCORMACK: Right. I wouldn't look at
the situation as quite as equivalent between Lebanon and the Gaza. But at this
point, Elise, I think what we're going to need to do is take a look at where we
are with the new situation in Gaza, a new balance of forces within Gaza in which
Hamas and its "military wing" is in control of most of the land mass there. So I
expect in the days and weeks ahead that we're going to take a look at that to
see what -- how to proceed with the security assistance program, how Keith
Dayton is going to continue working with the Palestinians. I believe that he has
every intention and that we have every intention of his continuing his work with
the Palestinians. We'll take a look to see what the balance might be between
working with forces on the West Bank vice working with forces in Gaza. Right now
I can't tell you what the balance might be in the future.
QUESTION: I just have a couple more. Are
you considering Gaza a lost cause at this point or are you -- is the intention
to try and help him? I know you're still discussing about how to do that.
MR. MCCORMACK: Right.
QUESTION: But is it your intention to try
and help him get control?
MR. MCCORMACK: Well, nobody's going to
abandon the Palestinian people and nobody wants to abandon the hundreds of
thousands if not millions of people in the Gaza Strip to the mercies of a
terrorist organization and the most extreme elements of the terrorist
organization. We're certainly not going to participate in this extinguishing the
hopes of a whole swath of the Palestinian population to live in a Palestinian
state.
Fundamentally, this comes down to a political
dispute. Now, Hamas has chosen to try to short-circuit any of that debate that
might have been occurring in Gaza with these violent actions. But we are --
ultimately the Palestinians are going to have to sort out for themselves the
politics. We've talked for a long time about this fundamental contradiction
within the Palestinian political system in which you have a group Hamas that
wants to have a foot in politics and a foot in terror. Well, it's -- certainly
the past few days' events have brought into high relief that choice. And it's
going to be -- I think the Palestinian people are going to look to President
Abbas for leadership and for a pathway out of this crisis within the Palestinian
political system.
QUESTION: I just have one more.
MR. MCCORMACK: Yeah.
QUESTION: It's not just like Hamas going
against Fatah. I mean, there is a cycle of violence between the -- among both
Palestinian forces and there is documented evidence, video of forces of Fatah,
which are actually in the security services going after members of Hamas that
aren't necessarily only in these extra military and security forces as you were
talking about, but members of the -- of Hamas -- of the Hamas government,
legislators. I mean, what kind of talks are you having with President Abbas
about making the distinction between -- are you considering everybody in Hamas,
whether they're a legislator or anybody, a legitimate target at this point?
MR. MCCORMACK: Look; certainly, we expect
the Palestinian Security Forces that report to President Abbas to adhere to
professional standards of conduct, to adhere to internationally accepted
standards of conduct. I can't go case by case for you, but one thing I know I'm
not going to do is try to draw an equivalence between a terrorist organization
and the legitimate institutions of the Palestinian Authority.
Look; if you can go by some of the reports coming
out of Gaza, there are reports of the Hamas military wing using tunnels
underneath some of the Palestinian Authority security force institutions to
launch attacks. That didn't just happen in the past couple days. They didn't
just dig the -- start digging these tunnels in the past four days. This has been
something that is premeditated and planned and quite clearly meant to try to
extinguish any sort of political debate within the Palestinian system about
which way the Palestinian people want to go.
And I can assure you that we are going to stand
with those who want to negotiate the basis for a Palestinian state. That
certainly is not Hamas at this time. They have consistently rejected the
international principles that they -- that the international system has asked
them to adhere to in order to have a different kind of situation in the
Palestinian areas and they refuse to do so, but -- so we're going to continue to
work and try to strengthen those moderate Palestinian forces that seek peace in
the region.
Yeah, Sylvie.
QUESTION: Ban Ki-moon today spoke about the
possibility of sending an international force in the Gaza Strip.
MR. MCCORMACK: Yeah.
QUESTION: Do you think it would be
politically a good idea and military feasible?
MR. MCCORMACK: Well, we'll, of course --
yeah, we'll, of course, take a look at whatever the Secretary General has to
propose. And I have to confess I haven't seen any details of such a proposal.
But I would, just as an initial reaction, put out for you that I think it would
be difficult to find forces that would be ready and effective in going into such
a clearly non-permissive environment.
Yeah, Libby.
QUESTION: Just more broadly, Sean, given
the trend line in Gaza in the last few days, doesn't this represent a severe
setback to any efforts Secretary Rice has made to bring a solution to this?
MR. MCCORMACK: Well, what it is -- it's a
challenge to the Palestinian political system. And I think what it does is
underscore the importance of working with those moderate forces in the
Palestinian political system that have an interest in a peaceful negotiation;
that have a vision for the Palestinian people that is based on greater freedoms,
greater democracy, greater prosperity and a Palestinian state.
That -- the importance of that and the importance
of that mission is in no way diminished by these actions. In fact, I think it
only underscores the importance of continuing to try to move forward on that
track, and to not let those who have made a conscious choice to use violence and
to use terror to undermine the aspirations of the Palestinian people to allow
them to succeed.
Kirit.
QUESTION: (Inaudible) off of Libby's
question, does the recent violence give the Secretary any pause to reconsider
any plans she may have to visit the region? And then second, you had mentioned
earlier this morning that the Secretary had spoken with the Jordanians and the
Egyptians to urge them to try to help Mahmoud Abbas. Could you tell us what
she'd like to see them do to help support Abbas?
MR. MCCORMACK: Right, a couple things. One,
in terms of travel plans, no changes at this point. We'll keep you up-to-date.
Yesterday she did speak with Egyptian Foreign Minister Aboul Gheit and they
talked about ways in which the Egyptian Government might augment their security
forces along that strip of land in Egypt that abuts the Gaza Strip. She
encouraged the Egyptian Government to support President Abbas in his efforts in
any way that they can politically, diplomatically.
She did not speak with the Jordanians directly, it
was our Ambassador went in and spoke with the Jordanian Government and it was
basically the same message, absent that augmentation of the security forces
along Gaza. But it was just a general message of talking to them about ways in
which they might support President Abbas, moderate Palestinian political forces
as well as to work within the Arab world to generate this similar kind of
support.
Yes, sir.
QUESTION: Sean, do you have a comment on
the death of Kurt Waldheim, who was the former U.S. Secretary General and was on
your watch list?
MR. MCCORMACK: Yeah, we'll come back to it.
Yeah.
QUESTION: I just wanted to ask, have you
had time to look sort of more closely at the report the UN leaked so-called
secret report? I specifically wanted to ask, though, there was a reference to
something that Elliott Abrams reportedly or allegedly had said in -- sort of a
threat to withhold UN -- U.S. funds to the UN unless the UN agrees to not talk
to Hamas.
MR. MCCORMACK: It's a UN report and I
understand it expresses the views of an individual, a former envoy, and you can
talk to him about his views and you can talk to the UN about whether or not
those views expressed in that report represent the views as -- of the UN as a
body.
QUESTION: Did you threaten to hold up
funding for the UN if it --
MR. MCCORMACK: You can talk to the UN about
their report.
Yeah, sure.
QUESTION: What's Dayton doing right now?
What's -- and I have a follow-up to that as well. What's -- where is he, what's
going on with --
MR. MCCORMACK: He's in the region and I'm
sure he is closely following the situation in contact with his Palestinian
interlocutors, feeding back information about the situation on the ground. And
I'm sure that the Secretary, as well as others, are going to be looking to him
as we get a clearer picture of the ramifications of what Hamas has done, as to
what sort of assistance we might provide to those legitimate Palestinian
institutions that report to President Abbas. Beyond that, I can't really speak
to his activities.
QUESTION: But if I'm not wrong, for the --
in recent -- you know, in the last four weeks, there was that proposal for a
U.S. -- the U.S. proposal for benchmarks that the Israelis should have to meet
and Olmert just came out and said, "Oh, we -- you know, we can't do this," and
it seemed to die. I mean, is -- and then there was the request by Fatah to get
ammunition in and -- I mean, the Israelis and the U.S. were looking at that and
then we didn't hear anything more about that. I mean, did both of those
proposals just fade away or are they still in play? I mean --
MR. MCCORMACK: No. In terms -- the
benchmarks are just meant to put down on a piece of paper some practical
political targets for the Palestinians and the Israelis to work on. Deals with
practical issues like checkpoints and those sort of issues. So no, that is still
active, that is still --
QUESTION: You're still trying to get the
Israelis to accept them?
MR. MCCORMACK: We're still working with
both sides. Look, I'm sure that if -- these were our thoughts and ideas. I'm
sure that the Palestinians and the Israelis are going to have suggestions
concerning the document. It's not something that is written in stone. It's meant
to be a cooperative exercise and it's not meant to impose anything on either
side. It's meant as a useful tool around which -- you know, with which they can
have a conversation, you know, some practical things that they might focus on.
In terms of assistance to the Palestinian security
forces, because of congressional notifications and reprogramming, that was
actually a program that was just really getting off the ground as Hamas launched
this attack. And our assistance to the security forces really centered around
training and non-lethal assistance, things like communications and uniforms and
that sort of thing.
QUESTION: Sean, can you just -- in the last
48 hours, who has the Secretary spoken to other than -- you said the Egyptian
Foreign Minister yesterday and then Abbas today?
MR. MCCORMACK: Yeah, in terms of -- she's
spoken with Foreign Minister Aboul Gheit on Wednesday. She spoke to Omar
Suleiman, the Egyptian intelligence head, on Tuesday. She spoke with President
Abbas today. She spoke to Israeli President Shimon Peres to congratulate him on
his election to the presidency. And --
QUESTION: Today?
MR. MCCORMACK: Yes, today. And on Monday,
she spoke with Foreign Minister Livni.
Yeah, Nina.
QUESTION: Sean, the Arab foreign ministers
are holding emergency talks tomorrow. Will there be a U.S. representative there
or will the Secretary speak with any of her counterparts after the meeting?
MR. MCCORMACK: I can't tell you whether or
not she's going to speak with her counterparts, but we are in contact with the
key players that are going to be attending that meeting. I'm not sure if we're
going to have an observer there or not, but we'll get a readout of the meeting.
And obviously, the results of the meeting will be out there for all to see.
QUESTION: Are you relying primarily on the
Egyptians to try and broker some kind of --
MR. MCCORMACK: Well, I think we're --
everybody's looking to some of the leading states in the region that have played
an active role on this issue. That includes the Egyptians, the Jordanians and
the Saudis as well as others. But I think people in the region look primarily to
those three states to take a lead.
Yeah, Farah.
QUESTION: I mean, it seems as though U.S.
policy in this conflict for the -- over a year has been to encourage the
moderates to confront the extremists, to encourage Abbas to confront Hamas.
Isn't that whole strategy based on the wishful thinking that Abbas would
actually win?
MR. MCCORMACK: No, the strategy is to help
build up functioning, effective, legitimate institutions of a future Palestinian
state. That's the strategy and that goes back to the President's Rose Garden
speech in 2002. And that's been the focus of our efforts. And it was harder to
accomplish in some areas than others. There was great progress that has been
made, actually, in regularizing and bringing up to an international standard
Palestinian finances. They were a mess in the wake of the rule of Yasser Arafat.
This was a system of multiple bank accounts, hidden accounts, cutouts, people
being paid in brown paper envelopes. And it was all designed to keep Yasser --
you know, to benefit Yasser Arafat and to benefit those around him. And that's a
system that Salam Fayyad and President Abbas got a hold of and have made great
strides in improving to the point now where the international system trusts
their dealings with them.
Now the Palestinian Security Forces were an equal
-- in an equal state of disarray; again, the same kind of -- the same kind of
fractured, unclear chain-of-command again all designed to keep Yasser Arafat in
control. So the object was to help build up those security forces, make them
more professional, have clear chains of command, and make them more capable, and
make them -- in every case, the idea was to have these institutions serve the
needs of the Palestinian people, whether that's in finances or in security.
Now in security, it took longer and it has taken
longer. And I would suggest to you that the timing of this Hamas strike against
these institutions isn't a coincidence, just as the training and equipping
program for these security forces that report to President Abbas is really
starting in earnest, really starting to get going. That's when they attack. They
attack just as the Egyptian Government is making efforts to try to bridge
differences within the Palestinian political system. They attack just as the
Qassam rocket attacks have been reduced -- not ended, but reduced. So it's a
clear attempt by these forces of violent extremism to short-circuit the debate
within the Palestinian political system about which direction the Palestinian
people are going.
QUESTION: (Inaudible) I mean, forgive me --
MR. MCCORMACK: No --
QUESTION: But it seems as though so much of
what you're saying is -- it doesn't jive with the reality on the ground of
what's happening and -- you know, you're talking about building the Palestinian
institutions and everything we're hearing out of Gaza is about the collapse.
MR. MCCORMACK: Look, you know, every single
day, members of Hamas, members of the Hamas military get up and they know what
they want to do. They want to work actively to try to subvert any progress to a
political reconciliation of the State of Israel. They want to work to subvert
any attempt to bring a functioning, legitimate democracy to the Palestinian
people. We know that. That is what the Palestinian people are up against, that
is what we are all up against, those of us who have an interest in bringing
peace to the region.
Is that difficult? Absolutely. And is it made --
has it been made more difficult by the fact that the Palestinian leadership,
prior to President Abbas, was thoroughly corrupt and thoroughly authoritarian?
Yes, it is. But that does not mean -- just because we have these challenges does
not mean that you give up on the Palestinian people. That is not what President
Bush, that is not what Secretary Rice is going to do.
So are the forces of violent extremism going to
fight back, are they going to punch back against attempts to bring greater
freedom, greater democracy, greater prosperity not only to the Palestinian
people, but to peoples throughout the Middle East? You bet they are and we're
seeing that. But that -- does that mean that we are going to fight any less
hard? Absolutely not. Does that mean we're going to give up? No. Does that mean
that we are going to sacrifice those people in the region who are forces for
moderation, who are forces for political dialogue, who are forces for peace?
Absolutely not.
That is precisely the wrong time to do that and
that is why Secretary Rice is making -- is going to make it very clear that we
continue to support those forces of moderation and those who want to bring peace
to the region.
Yeah.
QUESTION: Well, I was going to ask some questions, but you seem to have
asked and answered all of them yourself. Can we change -- move on or do you want
to do Waldheim first?
MR. MCCORMACK: Whoever wants to go next.
QUESTION: Let the guy -- do Waldheim.
(Laughter.)
QUESTION: Please.
MR. MCCORMACK: There you are. Certainly, I
think that our hearts go out to those members of his family who miss his
passing.
QUESTION: Any other comment on that?
MR. MCCORMACK: No.
Date: June
14, 2007
Place: U.S. State Department
The spokesman: